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Sunday, 29 March 2020

#59 MOTU 828 mk2 teardown

Even though this is the 4th or 5th of these units that has gone through my hands, looks like i never documented a teardown of one - shame on me! Time to rectify that issue then, wouldn't you say? I grabbed this one off eBay for about 60 bucks or so, delivered. On one hand, because it was pretty dirt cheap at this money, and on the other hand, because it will be involved in a project idea i had a good few years ago. And yes, "as usual" (by now), this one had a busted Firewire connection, but for my own (nefarious?) purposes, i don't need that anyway.


Up front are the two microphone / instrument inputs (Neutrik combo connectors, no less), the headphone output, volume control (for the headphones / main outs), and the encoders used for controlling the built-in digital mixer, and the menu system. Plus, of course, the 16x2 character LCD, and all the metering and status LEDs.


Round the back, there's a pretty comprehensive collection of ins & outs - 8 analog line inputs and outputs, plus a pair of main outputs, as well as sends for the two front inputs (to feed into a compressor or reverb or what-have-you); MIDI in & out; footswitch input; SMPTE timecode in & out; two Firewire connectors; S/PDIF coax in & out; ADAT sync connector (which i haven't encountered anywhere else); ADAT Lightpipe in & out; and last but not least, Wordclock BNC in & out.

As i may or may not have mentioned before, i do quite like this cast aluminium enclosure design MOTU came up with - this may well have been the first generation of units to employ it, along with the 8Pre i took a look into on this blog. The same case is still being used in their current units (minor spoiler alert - some "goodies" to look forward to in the near future).


Either way, off comes the top, and we're greeted with a... "suitably" (relatively) old-school design. Not one, not two, but three(!) transformers in the power supply. These give the unit quite a bit of heft, albeit [ahem] slightly right-side-heavy. The silkscreening says "Copyright 2003-4", so you can be sure this unit has indeed "a few miles on the clock", as it were. Still works though, for the most part anyway. For the sake of clarity and a better view, i took the liberty of removing the little daughterboard holding the gain adjust potentiometers for the front inputs.

Speaking of the power supply, worth starting with that, right? The smallest transformer up top supplies the phantom-power - 4-pin DB103G 1A bridge rectifier, smoothing capacitor, and an LM317HV to regulate that to a stable and clean 48V. The right-most of the two big transformers is in charge of the analog supplies. Interestingly enough, MOTU decided to add a pair of 0.47 ohm resistors to the input of the bridge rectifier - perhaps as a sort of makeshift current-limit? Regardless, what follows is ever so slightly naughty design - the voltage is then smoothed by a pair of 4700uF / 10V electrolytic capacitors. The naughty part of that is that i'm measuring about +/-10.2V on the analog supplies, and good engineering practice is to leave at least a 20% voltage margin for a capacitor rating, versus the voltage expected across it, NOT to use them right at their rated limits, or even slightly above. Tisk-tisk-tisk...


 There's one other bridge rectifier being fed by the analog-supply transformer, but this one has an 0.47 ohm resistor hanging off its "+" output, and a 180 ohm one off its "-" output. The former goes off to the 8-pin header for the front panel. The latter though, feeds an MC7906 negative voltage regulator putting out -6V. More on this later.

Same story on the digital supply side - the left-most bigger transformer feeds a quartet of 1N5819 Schottky rectifiers, and a 15000uF / 10V capacitor. Identical transformers mean that this, as well, is being used ever so slightly above its spec, and that's on our nominal 230V AC mains. What happens when the mains may happen to go even higher than that, when the grid's under low load? Nothing good for the longevity of the caps, that's for sure. Either way, this "raw" 10.2V gets regulated down to 5V by a Burr-Brown REG103FA - arguably "fancy". This then gets further knocked down by a National Semiconductor LM1117-3.3, to feed the processors.

Speaking of electrolytics, the black ones are Meritek(?), while the blue ones are Lelon. I've yet to see Meritek used anywhere else apart from MOTU gear, which is mildly interesting (perhaps).


Speaking of processors, quite a bit of "fat" silicon going on here. Running the show (controls, LCD, metering LEDs) is an SST89V564RD 8051-based microcontroller. Next to it resides an Altera ACEX EP1K30TC144-2N programmable logic device (PLD; think "FPGA lite") - most likely for marshalling all the audio data, as well as whatever format conversions may or may not be necessary, to get the data properly fed into the two other big chips in the vicinity.

One of those is a Texas Instruments TMS320VC5402 digital signal processor - this most likely handles all of the mixing duties (channel level adjustments, panning, muting, mixing), since there are no DSP effects (or what we might think those are, nowadays) available. The other large pin-count chip on the board is a Philips PDI1394L40 AV link-layer controller. Between this and the Firewire connectors we have the now-classic Texas Instruments TSB41AB2 Firewire PHY chip.


Speaking of which - Houston, i think we have a boo-boo. I wonder if that's how and why the Firewire connection is dead... More often than not, a crater in the chip and a pin (if not even two) vaporized right off it, tend to hint at the fact that things are not quite all well. On the bright side though, the problem seems to be isolated to the "outside" in/out sector; the oscillator and "internal" data-comms seem to still be in one piece, which is fine by me.


Staying on the digital side of things, the audio data I/O side employs a few jelly-bean logic gate chips, so nothing too space-age going on here. The ADAT Sync seems consist of three optocoupler-isolated inputs, using a Fairchild Semiconductor HCPL2530 dual unit, and a FOD817C single one.


Hidden in-between the power supply and the ribbon cables going off to the front panel is a Texas Instruments TLC2933 PLL chip.



Time to take a look at the analog and conversion side of things. The opamp complement is quite varied, to say the least. Even the preamp design is... perhaps a bit more complicated than it needs to be, but what do i know?

Regardless, the two microphone inputs are handled by a pair of NJM2068's, obscured by the two DB103G bridge rectifiers used as input protection clamps. The instrument inputs are fed into a pair of Texas Instruments / Burr-Brown OPA2134 JFET-input opamps. Both preamps are basically instrumentation amplifiers with variable gain.


Said gain is adjusted for both (microphone and instrument) at the same time, using a pair of pretty much custom-made potentiometers. They're both "stereo" and anti-log taper ("C" taper), but one "side" has a 2Kohm resistance (for the mic preamp), while the other is 20Kohm (for the instrument input) - go figure. The kicker is, these potentiometers are notorious for going bad and causing noises, pops and clicks, so... Yeah.

The outputs of the preamps go into the trio of LM833's, which split the signals in two, one feed going into the first of five AKM AK4528VF codecs, while the other goes via the header and ribbon cable to the output daughterboard, and to the "Send" outputs on the back. The smaller multi-legged chip is a lone AKM AK4382A DAC for the "Main Out" pair of outputs. And speaking of the first of five similar codecs, the DAC side of that seems to feed the headphone output, driven by a pair of NJM4580's.


 The other four codecs are in charge of the eight line inputs and outputs. Pretty much all of the "output" opamps are NJM4580's, handling DAC output filter duties as well as driving the actual outputs. On the input side though, things get a bit more interesting. On one hand, mostly hidden under the output daughterboard (so you'll have to take my word for it), each pair of line inputs goes into a Philips 74HCT4066D quad SPST analog switch, and then three NJM2115 opamps. Since the output feature list in the manual quotes selectable +4/-10dB selectable input sensitivity, i'm pretty sure that's the explanation. Also, the -6V rail seems to be used for powering these input NJM2115's, interestingly enough.


And a quick look at the front panel - not a whole lot going on here. On the front there are the encoders, the LCD, all the LEDs, a little LM78L05 regulator to power the logic chips, three SN75HC595 shift registers and a handful of transistors for driving the LED matrices.


Even less going on around the back - a lone Elna(!!!) capacitor on the input of the 5V regulator, and three SN74HC165N's for reading the encoders and associated buttons.

And that about wraps it up. Arguably "old" tech, but still very much usable. Stand by for whenever i manage to get around to putting some of my plans including this, into practice (but don't hold your breath)...

20 comments:

  1. Great teardown, thanks! I'm currently struggling with my 828 mkII. Occasionally It will freeze completely with the screen still on but not responsive and the clock rate LED goes out. It can happen 10 minutes after startup or 2 hours or anything in between. I'm thinking about where to start troubleshooting and was thinking it could potentially be power related. Reading about the under rated capacitor I'm thinking maybe the 15 000 µF could be the bad guy here. Do you have any thoughts?

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    1. Well, considering these things aren't exactly "factory fresh" nowadays, and i haven't seen Meritek caps in any other units than MOTU stuff, plus that i've seen one severely domed 15000uF cap in one of the 828mk2's i've collected...

      Yes, it would be at the very least prudent to replace the three big capacitors in the power supply section, and there's a reasonable chance that might cure the issue you're encountering.

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    2. Thanks for the extremely fast reply! I'll try that out :)

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    3. No worries, good luck with the re-cap!

      I've got 5 or 6 to "work on" (ie. do exactly that sort of a re-cap), as well as adding some mods for a project of mine...

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    4. Hi, I have the same problem. I did replaced the 15000uF cap, and that frozen situation came back after a while. Could you tell me which caps did you change and where can I get them?? Thanks anyway

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    5. That 15000uF is in front of the 5V regulator; in some 828mk2 revisions i've seen they had added or replaced the 6.8uF tantalum capacitor on the output of that regulator. That may very well also be a suspect. And/or perhaps the capacitors around the 3.3V regulator.

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  2. New capacitors did the trick! Thank you so much :)

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    1. Hi!, I think I have the same problem. Could you tell me which caps did you use for de 4700uF ones? 10V? or higher? Sorry! I don't kow much about electronics

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    2. 10V is a bit tight; i think even the stock ones were 16V. I think i set aside some 3300uF 16V capacitors for my several 828mk2's.

      You'll probably want to stick to reputable brands, like Panasonic, Nichicon, United / Nippon ChemiCon, Rubycon or Elna.

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  3. Don't know why that last post says unknown but it's still me who commented a month and a half ago :) /pro424

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  4. in later dated mkIIs that 15000 µF cap is 16 volts, not 10.

    but they still say good bye after 8-10 years of daily use.

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    1. @110, it's funny that I just ended up on this page after searching on Google why on my two 828 MKII, one has 10V capacitors and the other 16V after opening them today.

      So thanks for the information you just wrote today before my post, and I will take some time in the future to read of other things on this website, looks cool

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    2. I've amassed several 828mk2's so far (i think i'm up to 6 or 7), but i haven't paid too close attention to the voltage rating of that fat capacitor, nor to the exact manufacture date / revision of each. But recapping the power supply section of all of those is still on my (long-term) to-do list...

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. This is after the post removal, but i appreciate your offer, temporary as it may have been.

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  6. Hey, if you still want this thing, the offer still stands. At some point I looked at the date of last post (...almost a year ago) and thought this blog might have been defunkt and felt kind of weird talking into a black hole, lol. So if you want it, send me a pre-paid shipping label (preferably USPS, since it's the only service that's close to where I live) and this thing is yours...

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  7. Last post 2 years ago... a little late to the party, but here I am. I've got 3 of these now, 2 with the scratchy pot issue, but I don't use those inputs so I just mute them. I've had a couple of these with weird displays or freezing and have solved that issue by flipping them over and reflowing the pads for those transformers after opening them up. The first one I got the solder was visibly cracked. So, I just do that as a matter of course now.

    I'm tracking down an issue with my 3rd one though, where it functions fine, is recognized and can route audio to and from it. The issue that's occurring is that when I reach a certain threshold ALL of the LEDS blink out. If I turn a track or 2 down or mute a signal, the display Leds come back. If I use any track as a control to cause the failure to occur, I can see the Leds flickering a bit at a point where any more signal will cause all the Leds to blink off again. Sort of looks like when you blink looking at an old digital clock.

    I replaced the 450µf cap on the back of the display board with an equivalent I had kicking around and that improved things but when I really lean on it and start driving all the Leds, they still blink out. I'm thinking that's all indicative of power issues. I need to dig into this a little more. I was thinking about swapping those 3 big caps out for good measure.

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  8. Better late than never..?

    Yeah, a full re-cap couldn't hurt at all - Meritek is a brand i've only seen in MOTU gear, and while it seems to be all 'Murrican, i still trust it way less than the established Japanese ones.

    I don't recall having reason to investigate whether the LEDs are powered from the "raw" ~10V rail, the regulated 5V or (much less likely) the 3.3V rail. Then again, you might also wanna double-check the ribbon-cable between the front panel and the mainboard.

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  9. Well a small update on my blinking LED issue... I replaced the 2 4700µf and the 15000µf caps, and a whack of the 470µf as well. Unfortunately they did not correct the LED issue... If I run all tracks to drive all the LEDS they will blink out. I can see the activity LEDS flutter as the active LED count goes up too.

    Now, I didn't change the 470µf that was on the display board ( I'd already changed it out with something I had kicking around). So my next steps are going to be to look closer at the source that drives those LEDs, and I'll change that cap out then.

    It's working better than when I obtained it so no complaints there.

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