Yet another eBay score - caught this one with a blown power supply. Blown, as in, skidmark inside the casing, circuit board scorched, tracks vaporized. But maybe i'll make that into another article on its own, someday. In the mean time, let's take a peek under the hood of one of these arguable "classics".
Now, as you may or may not have guessed from the name, there's obviously(?) more than just a passing similarity between this and the older 828 mk2. The insides are a wee bit of a different story, though. But then again, given all the extra features, you'd sort of expect that.
Yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff in there. It's sort of much, but at the same time, it's not even all that crammed full.
The power supply is the same we've seen in the 8Pre, the 896mk3 Hybrid and the 8M. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", although in this case, it pretty much was. But i swapped it out with the one from a comatose 8Pre i had, due to not wanting to waste time, so there.
Due to the construction of the thing, and in the interest of logic(?), we'll take a quick peek at the piggyback-daughterboard, that carries the ADAT connections as well as the line outputs and the SMPTE timecode in/out.
At one end, there's an AKM AK4358 8-channel DAC, as well as as a FairchildSemi 74VHC04, probably buffering some clock signals. Output low-pass filters are JRC NJM4580's, and there's a tiny voltage regulator, likely powering the DAC; probably a Texas Instruments TPS73001, but the photo is a bit too blurry to make out.
Output drivers are several more NJM4580's.
The view doesn't change much upon removing the daughterboard, but at least now there's nothing in the way anymore.
Orchestrating the entire operation is an Atmel / Microchip AT91SAM7S256 microcontroller. You'll be forgiven for the sensation of deja-vu, but we have indeed encountered the same chip inside the recently-inspected Audio Express. And in the 896mk3 Hybrid as well, in fact. The firmware is (mostly) contained in the neighbouring Atmel / Microchip AT45DB161 16Mbit / 2Mbyte flash memory.
The heavy lifting is done by two big fat chips, this time around. On one hand, a Xilinx Spartan-3E XC3S500E FPGA, and on the other hand, a Texas Instruments TMS320C6722 DSP. The latter also employs a Samsung K4S641632K 64Mbit / 8Mbyte SDRAM chip - i would guess, mainly for the reverb. The FPGA's core is powered by, i'm suspecting, another TPS73001, but don't quote me on that. Up "north" you can just see the "classic" Texas Instruments TSB41AB2 Firewire PHY.
Also, interestingly enough, in the shot above we can see a couple unpopulated connector footprints near the rear edge of the board, that look remarkably similar to an Ethernet socket, as well as a USB-B socket. Even though the Hybrid version has Firewire 800 connectors... In any case, intriguing.
Also, off to the side, there's a clocking solution i hadn't seen before - a dedicated Analog Devices AD9834 direct digital synthesis chip.
Not a whole lot else regarding power supply circuitry on the main board, apart from the phantom power supply being handled by a Texas Instruments TPS61040 boost converter, complete with a voltage multiplier tacked onto the output (yet again). In the near vicinity are a pair of Analog Devices ADM709 voltage supervisors, aka reset controllers.
On to the audio circuitry - the two microphone / instrument preamplifiers are the nearly-ubiquitous Texas Instruments PGA2500's, aided by a few ST Microelectronics TS922 opamps. Over to the side, a pair of NJM4580 drive the two headphone outputs, and something like an LM7905(?) regulates the -5V rail for the preamps.
An AKM AK4396 stereo DAC is in charge of the main stereo output, along with a few NJM4580's on the way.
On the analog-to-digital conversion side, we have two Cirrus Logic chips, a CS5368 and a CS5364, an 8-channel and a 4-channel converter, respectively. All 12 channels seem to be in use, although i'm not 10000% sure what the last pair is used for, really. Betwen eight line inputs and the two mic/instrument inputs... Regardless, a veritable army of TS922's assists them.
A bit further "downstream" there's a Cirrus Logic CS3308 8-channel volume control, with some further NJM4580's driving the outputs. Also, a Texas Instruments TPS79850 regulates the 5V rail for the converters.
And last but by no means least, an AKM AK4382A DAC handles the second (independently assignable) headphone output, with a couple of more NJM4580's after it.
And that just about wraps this up. Testing all the ins & outs revealed no issues, so the toasted power supply was all that was wrong with this.
Did you ever try using the internal USB port? I've got a MK3 with dead Firewire ports and I noticed the USB port when I cracked it open. I got nothing when I tried plugging into it - was hoping it would maybe work without the Firewire.
ReplyDeleteHaven't really had a reason to, and i don't have this unit anymore. Either way, it's connected directly to the main processor, and i seriously doubt any audio data passes through it anyway.
DeleteTSB41AB2's are around $5 from reputable distributors (plus whatever shipping they might charge, if you've got nothing to fill the free-shipping-quota), and replacing it shouldn't be impossible. They haven't even soldered the metal belly-pad (at least in 828mk2's or Traveler mk3's, at least).
On a second try I did actually have something come up when plugging in the USB on my Mac - it showed up in system profiler as an 828 MK3 connecting at USB 1.1 speed. It didn't connect to the drivers or show up as an audio device, so I guess that's that.
DeleteHmm, if the bottom pad isn't connected then I might be in luck trying to replace it. I don't have a hot air station, but I might be able to cut the legs on it, might be tough though. I'll have to re-cap the thing too, there are a few bulging 1000uf caps.
Thanks for the reply!
That USB is most likely for some debugging features for factory / service testing.
DeleteIf you go with the cutting-the-pins method, you'll wanna be really careful not to plunge all the way into the circuit board and cut any traces there. That's not impossible to fix, but it would add a whole other level of hassle and headaches.
Well the other route for me would be to get 4 hands and 4 soldering irons, which actually isn't impossible really. Or I just bite the bullet and finally buy a hot air station. Maybe I'll just do that - I have a Fireface to repair too. Thanks for the reply!
DeleteI'm still using a cheapie Atten 858D hot-air station that I got for about 60 bucks or so off ebay, maybe close to a decade ago already (?) - granted, i haven't abused it 24/7, but it's still going strong. Replacement heaters seem to be widely available as well, if needed. If memory serves, i pulled the trigger on it after seeing a teardown & review on EEVblog back then.
DeleteHello Khron. I have to replace the common mode choke in my 828 mk3 PSU, but I can't find any information about this part. It says UU-10.5, but there are many versions with different inductance of it. Can you tell me anything about the specs of the CMC which is in the 828? Or maybe there are alternative parts? I'm really desperate. Thanks a lot!
ReplyDeleteReplacing the common-mode choke? That's not exactly a common occurrence; i can't help wondering just what could've happened, to cause it to fail.
DeleteI doubt the exact inductance value is terribly critical, as long as it's rated for the current this power supply can draw. Pretty sure anything over 0.5A should be ample, as long as you make sure the footprint fits.
The inductance value plays more of a role in compliance testing, so the interference that is conducted back into the mains is under certain values at certain frequencies (as per standards etc).
Thanks for your reply! Yes, I was surprised too. There were several damaged parts I already replaced (I think a damaged rectifier was the main problem) and the CMC was visibly burned. Also there was no voltage measureable on the CMC. That's why I need a similiar part to replace it.
DeleteAh, fair enough then. I don't suppose there's any wire thickness specified in the parts you've found, is there?
DeleteAnd what exactly do you mean by "no voltage measureable"? Is there continuity still between the two pairs of terminals? Or did you mean there's no DC measurable across the 400V capacitor? I assume you've already checked the fuse as well?
Sorry, I mean there was no voltage in the circuit after the CMC. And there was no continuity between the terminals of the CMC at all.
DeleteThe fuse was blown, so I replaced it. I also replaced that round bridge rectifier and the 10nf Cap right after the power socket, because it had some cracks in it.
Did I get it right, that the CMC is only for filtering noise? So can't I just get rid of it and solder some jumpers on the PCB? Only to see if the rest of the PSU is working...
Chinese ATX power supply manufacturers have been doing that for decades, it's also known as "muntzing". So for testing purposes, sure, it should be fine to just add a couple jumpers instead of the two windings.
DeleteSee the bottom left corner in this picture.
I will try it. Thank you for your help!
DeleteSorry for the post necro - but my 828x has developed a small problem. Would you happen to know what those led ladder segment meters are made of and if they are easily enough repaired? My main meter L -42 led won't light up. the rest of the LEDs work.
ReplyDeleteI'm quite skeptical those can be repaired, as such - i'm pretty sure those are moulded / resin-cast together in the same package. On the bright side (no pun intended) though, you should be able to read a part number off one of the sides. You'll likely need to detach the front panel PCB from the metal panel first.
DeleteSo glad to find this, thank you for sharing. I scored this at a music store attic sale (they labeled it as an mk2 and priced it as such). Worked prefectly for a couple of weeks, but I left it turned on overnight and I believe I fried the PSU (I can smell it, and it no longer powers up). Haven't had a chance to open it up as the screws on my unit happen to be SUPER tight and I was at risk of stripping them altogether.
ReplyDeleteWould you recommend I try replacing the diodes first, unless I see melted caps? And if I do replace melted caps, should I also replace the diodes just in case? Thx in advance.
Well, why would you not want to determine just what *IS* wrong in the power supply, before "shotgunning" parts, whether you need to or not?
DeleteThe power supply is likely due for a recap anyway - those electrolytics weren't fabulous from the factory, and a decade or two of "cooking" will not have done them any favours either...
Would you want to repair my 828 mk3 firewire? Last time it worked was right before I jammed the firewire cable in upside down in the back of the MOTU, and it stopped interfacing with any of my machines. Took it to a chip repair shop and spent $150 CAD but he didn't have a schematic and it didn't get fixed. I don't want to spend a ton of money on the unit but it would be handy to have it interfacing again. I'll watch for a response here from you. All my best!
ReplyDeleteSounds like a genius / professional right there...
DeleteThat being said, as the saying goes - "i'm no gynecologist, but i'll take a look!" But on the other hand, i'm not too sure it's economically feasible to ship it both ways across the Atlantic, unfortunately. Or at least i wouldn't, but if you're willing to make that investment, more power to ya!